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SubjectRe: [PATCH v5 1/9] dt-bindings: usb: Add Type-C switch binding
On Thu, Jun 23, 2022 at 7:13 PM Stephen Boyd <> wrote:
> Quoting Prashant Malani (2022-06-23 17:35:38)
> > On Thu, Jun 23, 2022 at 4:14 PM Stephen Boyd <> wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm not aware of any documentation for the dos and don'ts here. Are
> > > there any examples in the bindings directory that split up a device into
> > > subnodes that isn't in bindings/mfd?
> >
> > usb-c-connector [3] and its users is an example.
> What are the subnodes? The graph ports? That is not what I meant.

cros-ec-typec [4] uses subnodes of usb-c-connector. Chrome OS DTs
use the ports from the included usb-c-connector to switching hardware.

> I meant splitting up a device functionality, like type-c and display
> bridge, into subnodes. Composition of devices through DT bindings isn't
> how it's done. Instead, we dump all the different functionality into the
> same node. For example, look at the number of bindings that have both
> #clock-cells and #reset-cells, when those are distinct frameworks in the
> kernel and also different properties. We don't make subnodes to contain
> the different functionality of a device.
> And in this case I still don't see the point to making a subnode.

I've already provided my best effort at explaining the rationale.

> The
> API can simply setup a type-c switch based on a graph binding for the
> toplevel node, e.g. the drm-bridge, and the driver can tell the API
> which port+endpoint to use to search the graph for the usb-c-connector
> to associate with the switch.

OK, drm-bridge uses that approach. This is another approach. I didn't fully
understand why we *have* to follow what drm-bridge is doing.

> We don't need to connect the graph within
> the drm-bridge node to the graph within the typec-switch node to do
> that. That's an internal detail of the drm-bridge that we don't expose
> to DT, because the driver knows the detail.

I still don't understand why we can't do that. These devices have actual
hardware blocks that represent the Type-C switch functionality.

> It also aligns the graph
> binding for the top-level node with non-typec bindings, like drm, which
> don't use a second level of graph binding to achieve essentially the
> same thing when the output is connected to a DP connector.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > Why doesn't it work to
> > > > > merge everything inside usb-switch directly into the drm-bridge node?
> > > >
> > > > I attempted to explain the rationale in the previous version [1], but
> > > > using a dedicated sub-node means the driver doesn't haven't to
> > > > inspect individual ports to determine which of them need switches
> > > > registered for them. If it sees a `typec-switch`, it registers a
> > > > mode-switch and/or orientation-switch. IMO it simplifies the hardware
> > > > device binding too.
> > >
> > > How is that any harder than hard-coding that detail into the driver
> > > about which port and endpoint is possibly connected to the
> > > usb-c-connector (or retimer)? All of that logic could be behind some API
> > > that registers a typec-switch based on a graph port number that's passed
> > > in, ala drm_of_find_panel_or_bridge()'s design.
> >
> > If each driver has to do it (and the port specifics vary for each driver),
> > it becomes an avoidable overhead for each of them.
> > I prefer hard-coding such details if avoidable. I suppose both approaches
> > require modifications to the binding and the driver code.
> Ok, sounds like it is not any harder.

I feel this approach is easier :)

> >
> > >
> > > Coming from a DT writer's perspective, I just want to go through the
> > > list of output pins in the datasheet and match them up to the ports
> > > binding for this device. If it's a pure DP bridge, where USB hardware
> > > isn't an input or an output like the ITE chip, then I don't want to have
> > > to describe a port graph binding for the case when it's connected to a
> > > dp-connector (see dp-connector.yaml) in the top-level node and then have
> > > to make an entirely different subnode for the usb-c-connector case with
> > > a whole other set of graph ports.
> >
> > This approach still allows for that, if the driver has any use for it
> > (AFAICT these drivers don't).
> > Iff that driver uses it, one can (optionally) route their output
> > (top-level) ports through the
> > "typec-switch" sub-node (and onwards as required).
> > If it's being used in a "pure-DP" configuration, the "typec-switch" just
> > goes away (the top level ports can be routed as desired by the driver).
> > (Again, I must reiterate that neither this driver or the anx driver
> > utilizes this)
> >
> > >
> > > How would I even know which two differential pairs correspond to port0
> > > or port1 in this binding in the ITE case?
> >
> > Why do we need to know that? It doesn't affect this or the other
> > driver or hardware's
> > functioning in a perceivable way.
> If the device registers allow control of the DP lane to physical pin
> mapping, so that DP lane0 and DP lane1 can be swapped logically, then
> we'll want to know which DP lanes we need to swap by writing some lane
> remapping register in the device. Sometimes for routing purposes devices
> support this lane remapping feature so the PCB can route the lines
> directly to the connector instead of going in circles and destroying the
> signal integrity.

Then add more end-points to port@1 (for each differential pair
you want to describe) of the usb-c-connector and route them
to the typec-switch accordingly.
FWIW I'm not aware of h/w *that supports DP alt mode* that uses the
you're referring to.

> >
> > > Ideally we make the graph
> > > binding more strict for devices by enforcing that their graph ports
> > > exist. Otherwise we're not fully describing the connections between
> > > devices and our dtb checkers are going to let things through where the
> > > driver most likely will fail because it can't figure out what to do,
> > > e.g. display DP on 4 lanes or play some DP lane rerouting games to act
> > > as a mux.
> >
> > How is the current binding enforcing this? The typec-switch binding
> > as a first step ensures that the DT is connecting the hardware(anx,ite
> > etc) to something
> > that at least "claims" to be a Type-C switch.
> I'm simply saying that we can extend existing bindings like anx or ite
> to have required properties for ports so that we know the driver will
> find something on the other end of the graph. A binding that doesn't
> have any ports will be invalid.

typec-switch requires a port.

I don't know if that's possible to do
> in the schema.
> >
> > > Is that why you're proposing this binding? To
> > > avoid describing a graph binding in the usb-c-connector and effectively
> > > "pushing" the port count up to the mux?
> >
> > No, that is not the intention behind this series. The
> > 'usb-c-connector' still needs the
> > graph binding to the `typec-switch`. SBU, HS and SS lanes might have different
> > muxes altogether (usb-c-connect has separate ports for SBU, HS and SS lanes)
> If the usb-c-connector still needs a graph binding to the typec-switch
> then why isn't that part of this series?

That's not what I meant (what I meant earlier is the intention is not
what you stated).
I simply meant that the usb-c-connectors ports should be connected to
the typec-switch
ports. There isn't any binding update required for this.


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