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SubjectRe: [ANNOUNCE] Merkey's Kernel Debugger
On Fri, Aug 08, 2008 at 09:29:53AM -0400, Vivek Goyal wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 08, 2008 at 04:29:16AM +0200, Andi Kleen wrote:
> > > panic() is the only place where kdump gets a chance to run first and
> > > panic notifiers are not executed.
> >
> > To be fully clear panic() that is called outside oops/exception context
> >
> > s/panic/die notifiers/
> >
> > >
> > > To me so far only in kernel debugger seems to be a reasonable candiate
> >
> > Yes a kernel debugger should be able to hook into panic()
> >
> > In fact it can do that already by just setting a break point,
> > but clearly having a real notifier is preferable.
> >
> > The use case would be then that the kernel debugger would
> > have some command to trigger a dump.
> >
> > > which needs to run before kdump after a panic event. If a debugger
> > > is really getting merged into the kernel, then I think debugger can
> >
> > kgdb is already merged. Also the x86 notifiers are general
> > enough that there are a couple of debuggers floating around
> > that are just using existing interfaces (as in need very little in terms
> > of core patching)
> >
> > > put a hook in the panic() before kdump. Wouldn't this solve the problem?
> >
> > Yes it would, but right now there is no such hook. Also if there
> > was such a hook kdump could use it like everyone else.
> >
> > There's a priority scheme in notifiers so you can still run usually last.
>
> Hi Andi,
>
> IIUC, there are two lists for exception and panic notifications. All the
> exceptios, NMI related notifications go through "die_chain" and
> all the panic notifications are done through "panic_notifier_list".
>
> Are you suggesting that kdump should be put onto panic_notifier_list, in
> such a way so that it runs last?
>
> Just few points to ponder.
>
> - panic_notifier_list is exported and any module can register and make use
> of it. As you mentioned in your other mail, there are lot of drivers out
> there with crappy code and if we do it, all the drivers get a chance
> to do stuff after panic() and there is no gurantee that kdump code will
> ever get a chance to run.
>
> - Kdump is built on the philosophy that after a panic(), one should do as
> as little as possible in the kernel and all the actions should be
> deferred to new kernel. That's why we recommend that all the panic
> notifier actions (except debugger), should be done in second kernel. It
> does introduce a little delay in notification but it also makes it more
> reliable.
>
> - Neil Horman, has already provided infrastructure so that one can put
> it user space code in second kernel's initrd and it will be executed.
> This can be easily done for modules also.
>
> But somehow nobody seems to be interested in doing things in second kernel
> and everybody wants to run its post panic code in the first kernel. So
> far, except debugger, we have not run into any strong case which needs to
> run post panic code in first kernel and things will not work out if post
> panic actions are taken in second kernel.

In the case of the cross-partition driver, running panic notification in the
second kernel is an interesting idea.

I discussed it with Robin Holt, who is more knowledgable than I on the
details of that driver, and he told me that there is a great deal of
state information needed for the notification. It's easy to do in the
first kernel, but extremely difficult in a second kernel.

Couldn't we have some tunable flexability in that area, to determine
should run on a panic, and in what order?




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