Messages in this thread | | | Date | Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:21:27 -0800 (PST) | From | Andre Hedrick <> | Subject | Re: Linux GPL and binary module exception clause? |
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Rob,
You know, I would have to say you just waxed my arse all over the mailing list and left it in the mop bucket for cooling off. The beauty is I can now laugh about it, and see you are so raw over the issue. Have a case of chapstick to help smooth over the burn.
It is kind of cool you had an atomic bomb to fry me, if I cared I would respond in the old ugly manners, but hey I asked for it. Feels like the the dude in the Memorex commerial.
Cheers,
Andre Hedrick LAD Storage Consulting Group
On Thu, 11 Dec 2003, Rob Landley wrote:
> On Thursday 11 December 2003 16:42, Andre Hedrick wrote: > > Rob, > > > > > The fact you personally were off in a corner talking about little green > > > men from mars is remarkably irrelevant to what I wrote to Hua Zhong (who > > > I'm fairly certain is not you. His english is better.) > > > > Gee, I love the insults. I seriously doubt you have ever paid a lawyer > > to even have the knowledge to allow you to pump out the bovine piles you > > are spraying in the air. > > I've noticed that you love insults, yes. I believe you've finally found a > statement that we can both agree on. > > > Correct, I am not a lawyer, and you admit you are not one. > > Two. Wow. Progress. > > > I have paid lawyers for advice and some damn good ones. > > > > Can you say the same? > > I have paid lawyers for advice. I have been paid BY lawyers. I have hung out > socially with lawyers. I have studied law for years, although not with the > aim of acquiring credentials. > > Here's a week-long series on intellectual property I wrote for The Motley Fool > a few years ago. It was reviewed by TMF's legal department, and we went back > and forth on a couple minor things before it got published. > > http://www.fool.com/portfolios/rulemaker/2000/rulemaker000501.htm > http://www.fool.com/portfolios/rulemaker/2000/rulemaker000502.htm > http://www.fool.com/portfolios/rulemaker/2000/rulemaker000503.htm > http://www.fool.com/portfolios/rulemaker/2000/rulemaker000504.htm > http://www.fool.com/portfolios/rulemaker/2000/rulemaker000505.htm > > I've since spotted a couple more minor points that crept past the lawyers who > reviewed it. I have learned since then. I learned doing it: I still have > some of the literature I picked up visiting the PTO in washington DC doing > research for that series. And I learned a lot years before doing it. That's > just one example that's still online. > > I have been paid to explain the standard community interpretation of the GPL > by at least three different companies' lawyers now. (I started studying the > GPL and LGPL specifically in 1996, which is really what got me into this > whole hobby...) > > A few years ago I had some fairly extensive email discussions with Richard > Stallman about copyright and the GPL (even driving to boston to interview him > in person once). I've had considerably more extensive discussions with Eric > Raymond (whose wife is a lawyer, and who as president of OSI has been asked > to review licenses by companies like Apple and IBM...) > > Heck, Eric and Cathy are _friends_ of mine. Try "dig www.landley.net" and > "dig www.thyrsus.com": I'm still borrowing space on the machine in Eric's > basement because I've been too lazy to arrange a hosting box here in Texas. > (It's on my to-do list...) I'm mentioned in the introduction of Eric's new > book because I went to Pennsylvania and crashed on his couch for a month to > edit the thing. (http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/html/pr01s06.html > paragraph 2. The "walkthrough" in 0.2 and 0.3 of the revision history was > _ME_.) > > I'm the one who arranged to have a panel at Penguicon on intellectual property > issues with a real lawyer (Cathy) explaining what the various open source > licenses mean to attendees (See > http://penguicon.sourceforge.net/programming.shtml sunday, 10 am, north > belle). This year's Penguicon will probably have another one, although I'm > much less involved... > > And what I've learned from ALL of that (and far more that's not worth listing > here) is that there's a reason it's called a legal OPINION, and what you > generally say isn't "you're wrong" but "I disagree, and here's why". Judges > give rulings, not lawyers. (And judges' rulings get overturned, don't apply > to a given case, vary by jurisdiction, etc...) > > Lawyers no more universally agree on interpretations of the law then techies > agree on kernel optimizations. And open source licensing (as a subset of > intellectual property) is every bit as much a specialty area of the law as > virtual memory page replacement strategies (a subset of kernel development) > is a specialty area of programming. (Most lawyers don't really know much > about it at all, they just know where to look it up. Hence a couple lawyers > asking me what the community thinks the GPL means. Obviously they don't take > my opinion as gospel: they go and read the thing themselves, and the law, and > as much relevant case law as they can find (which ain't much), and then we > have a back and forth...) > > I don't know much about estate planning, tax law, insurance law, or civil > administrative procedure. I keep forgetting what latin terms like "res > judicata" mean (god bless Google), and I had to look up "barratry" at the > start of the SCO thing. But yes, I consider myself competently informed > about my little niche. > > These days, with resources like http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/ out > there, it's not nearly as hard to be up to speed on this as it used to be. > (You used to have to go to the LIBRARY. And get out BOOKS. And send money > to Nolo Press every time they got sued. Uphill. Both ways.) > > > Can you say the same? > > Why would I want to? > > I've seen experts in this area. Eben Moglen > (http://emoglen.law.columbia.edu/) and Lawrence Lessig > (http://www.lessig.org/blog/) come to mind. > > I am not an expert here. I am an educated layman. I read things like "Legal > battles that shaped the computer industry" (by Lawrence D. Graham, > http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1567201784/026-4037783-2541254 ) for > fun. Yes, I am weird. > > You obviously aren't even an educated layman if you think that simply having > spoken to a lawyer means that legalness somehow rubbed off on you and gave > you an aura of absolute truth. Every time I talk to a lawyer, the concept of > absolute truth in law gets farther and farther away... > > Feel free to take that as a suggestion. > > Rob >
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