Messages in this thread | | | From | "David Schwartz" <> | Subject | RE: vger rejecting messages from mediaone (ORBS is evil) | Date | Sat, 15 Jan 2000 13:18:05 -0800 |
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> Perhaps ORBS could instead list the netblock as 'unscanned but > well-policed' > if no addresses in the entire netblock currently appear in MAPS. [snip] > Is this a reasonable way to increase the value of the information > served by ORBS, i.e. would this reduce rejection of good email? > > - Dan
I would be happy if ORBS just stopped lying to people about what they are. Compare:
"What is ORBS? The short answer: ORBS is a validated database of open mail relays and open mail relay output points, accessable via DNS lookup."
to:
"Q. That sounds unfair. If ORBS doesn't probe a machine, why should it list that machine? If it doesn't probe that machine, it doesn't know if that machine is an open relay.
A. Yes, it does sound unfair. Turning the argument around, though, you can see that if ORBS doesn't probe a machine, ORBS doesn't know if the machine is closed to relaying. So the question really is: If ORBS cannot test a machine, should it assume the machine to be an open relay, or a closed one? Either assumption will be wrong some of the time. ORBS makes the first assumption."
Now I was always under the assumption that ORBS was supposed to be a list of _validated_ mail relays. The definition of 'validated' is 'the removing of doubt by authoritative fact or evidence'.
So this answer is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if ORBS assumes the machine is relaying or assumes it doesn't. In fact, this is a classic false dichotomy. Must you either assume that I have fifty cents in my pocket or assume that I don't have fifty cents in my pocket? Of course not. You don't assume either.
So the question should not be what we do or don't assume, because who cares what ORBS assumes. What I do care about is whether the entry constitutes a 'validated open mail relay', and if not, what the hell is it doing on a list that is represented as a list of 'validated open mail relays'?
The advantage of ORBS over similar lists was supposed to be that:
1) ORBS would proactively search for relays, rather than waiting for them to be abused.
2) ORBS would add any relay they found, regardless of whether the administrator had been warned or not or whether he/she promised to fix the problem shortly.
3) ORBS would contain only validated mail relays tested by a less fallible means than other lists.
But this is not what ORBS is shaping up to be at all. It continues to represent itself as containing only proven open relays on the main 'what is ORBS' type pages while this is actually far from the truth.
DS
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